No Moods, Ads or Cutesy Fucking Icons

Sleep well, friend. The Rifters are on watch.

Do you have to sacrifice the first born son? And if so, literally, or figuratively? We could just raise him in a skinner box and call it a sacrifice for science.

On a more serious note, here’s hoping everything gets sorted. Signal has been boosted, the Bloodhound Gang is on the case, and we’re making Free the Squid placards as we speak.

Although I am a staunch supporter of our (usually) good neighbour, the United States of America, I am appalled by this incident. Ever since George W. Bush stepped down, things have gone downhill. He would not let this sort of thing stand but in the SOCIALIST world of Barrack Obama, this sort of gestapo attacks go on every day.

Well, this time they messed with a CANADIAN. This will not stand.

@Pixelfish You make it a bumper-sticker and a t-shirt and you’ve got a sale!

(All proceeds will of course go to the Kibble Fund I assume?)

A ‘re-hash’ in the National Post

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/afterword/archive/2009/12/11/canadian-sci-fi-author-beaten-imprisoned-at-us-border-crossing.aspx

Fear not, GS! The Legion of Cephalopods is on the case. Take your well-earned rest. Justice never sleeps.

Thank you for clarifying things; I have edited my post to add some things and strike out others.

Rest well. We are all pulling for you.

With any luck this will all end up with you, the thug cops and President Obama sharing a beer.

Peter, unasked for advice of the day: Ignore the embarrassing descendants of the American Revolution who think the police are always right. There are still many people in my country who remember that it is no crime to question authority, and sometimes, questioning authority is a duty.

Also, get a lot of sleep.

I’m appalled and horrified.
And I know that the line about sacrificing the first born son is a joke, but there are people with NO sense of humor out there

(the same bunch who took seriously the Augustine’s Law which years ago, based on straight line projection trend analysis in the price of military fighter planes, announced that in the year 2020 the US Government would have one fighter plane; it would be shared with half the year the US Air Force having it, and the other six months, the US Navy, and the US Marines having it on leap days, What the humorless wonders who heard the joke completely missed, is that it -was- a joke, and Norman Augustine, the author of that and other such “laws,” was the ultimate aerospace and defense industry insider–he wound up as the CEO of Lockheed-Martin, the largest defense contractor in the USA! The humorless wonder thought he was being a serious critic as opposed to someone inside the industry being sarcastic and lampooning the industry from the inside)

Anyway, while theoretically it ought to be obvious to the most casual observer that you’re making a joke, you’re overestimating the taste/clue level and for that matter the graciousness and honorability level of a certain percentage of the United States public… given an opportunity to misread something or to maliciously misinterpret it, they’ll embrace a misread/maliciousmalevolent misinterpretation every time.

I’m more than slightly suspicious that the report which you indicate is loaded with inaccuracies, is extant and inaccurate by other than happenstance…. I wouldn’t be surprised if e.g. it’;s intentional disinformation/misinformation/etc.

Dr Watts, I’m relieved that you’ve arrived safely and have expert counsel and supporters. I’m glad to be one of the latter (via the Niblet route, also through Bill Schafer’s generosity), though at present a bit disgusted to be a citizen of the Untied Snakes of Adversia.

Rest well, and I hope that all settlements be in your favor.

Chris

A freak wormhole had opened up outside my bedroom window tonight as I lay there with my hand gently intertwined with that of my lover.

She was asleep, so she did not hear the interlopers, drunken and rowdy, as they made their scurrilous ways across our front lawn.

I slipped away quietly, to make sure that the front door was locked, and found this page up on my laptop. I must have zoned off whilst reading about your tribulations & trials, but I have not forgotten, and will try to muster our supply sergeant and master-at-arms tomorrow to see what provisions are available.

Sleep well, for you deserve to.

– jpt_io

Agree with WS. Those so-called descendants will follow anything that wraps itself in a flag and talks tough enough; this decade is proof enough of that.

I, for one, would like to personally apologize for the actions of my government. I am sorry and I wish this had not happened to you.

Heard the news yesterday just before going to bed myself. Had some weird dreams after that ! ;-(
Anyway, haut les cœurs, as we say (or said) here : chin up. Hold on and all that sort of things.

50 CAD sent for legal defense.

I’d like to mention Zimbardo’s Stanford Prison experiment. While the situations are very different, I suggest the following analogy: officers see themselves as the high-ranking authority, while citizens see themselves as low-ranking authority-followers. When the citizens overstep their intended roles and try any higher-status moves, officers can get nasty to put citizens in their place.

I suspect this has little to with the US or authoritarianism, and more to do with the basics of human psychology (although of course any state should fight such behavior). I will not be greatly surprised if the officers in this particular case have IQs higher than 100 and vote Democrat.

Hi Peter,

A monstrous course of events, and another anti-democratic outrage from the US authorities. For what it’s worth, I’ve highlighted your plight on my Facebook page (which ANYBODY with a Facebook account can access), and on my proto-blog:
http://windfromnowhere.blogspot.com/2009/12/defend-support-peter-watts.html

Wishing you the best – and look forward even more to your next novel!

DANNY O’DARE

I know from personal experience that law enforcement around here tends to decide what you’re guilty of, before any incident or investigation. But hey, the thought police don’t need true evidence, do they.

Welcome to the ranks, my brother. My sincerest hopes that this turns out well, I’d hate for the best current SF author to be thrown in the pen.

So sorry this happened to you…we’re not all bad on the U.S. side. The border patrol may still be on a high from busting some true criminals last week, but that’s no excuse for what happened to you. And the Times Herald is notorious for getting shit wrong. Unfortunately, it’s the only newspaper we have in town.

P.S. to Harry Nads…this incident has nothing to do with who’s president, trust me. The mentality, right or wrong, is part of the fallout from 9/11.

To the many authority loving folks commenting on here. My grandmother use to always say that ‘if you’ve done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear’ till some other little ol’ ladies ratted her out for bumping another car in a parking lot(no damage done). Then the cops came to her house and harassed her, and took her license away.

The point is, until you’ve been pulled from your car and beaten by the cops, it’s hard to understand that they can do this for to you, because you looked at them the wrong way, but they do. They’ve done it to me, more than a few times.

I still travel, but have had major trouble at the border and will not drive over it again, no way, just not worth it.

Good luck Peter, i really don’t care if you ‘disobeyed a lawful command’ to hell with that, how far could you get doing it without major weapons? Even if you were a dick(and i’m not saying you were) these guys are supposedly pro’s, and pro’s stay calm under pressure. If they struck you, or harmed you, they lost their cool, or they enjoy hurting people. Either way, it’s wrong.

Remember folks, two wrongs do not make a right!

Stay strong, this helps to open the eyes to the way 1,000’s are treated every day all across the so called ‘land of the free’.

what a croc!

aoxomoxoa sought

“….we use our big honking neocortices not to control our instincts, but to make excuses for them.”

It would seem that you have a good case for wrongful arrest, false imprisonment, assault and defamation of character. The payout is likely to be in the millions… certainly enough to replace the stolen coat.

Okay, well now that everyone is active again: How to expand today?

Incredible. I hope you get through this quickly and safely. The best of luck!

Harry Nads stated that Canada has never attacked the US. But you forgot that one little incident when we entered Washington and set the whitehouse on fire during the war of 1812. Oh shit, I am probably now on a Homeland Security list.

Wen a cop or a border guard tells you to do something simple like stay in your car, or get back in your car, you should.

Much simpler.

Hey guys, let’s get this out there: http://www.cnn.com/feedback/tips/newstips.html

I’ve added a little bit to the fund. It will probably only be enough for some seconds of lawyer-time, but I hope it helps.

Good luck!

Dear Mr. Watts
I read he story about your incident today in the Port huron Times Herald. I have followed your work for years and was shocked to see what had happened to you at the border. I have been in Law Enforcement for 13 years and a Survival Tactics Instructor for 6 of those years. Please have your legal team do reseach on those involed in the incident, I’m sure your going to be suprised by what you find. This isn’t the first caseof excessive force at the Blue Water Bridge by US officers.

Good luck Sir, and Gob Bless

Harry, this is not something you can blame on Obama. If he bears any fault in this, it is for not having magically caused the years of the Bush administration’s complete disregard for civil liberties to no longer be the guiding principle of the thugs responsible for this outrage.

Do please educate yourself about the reality of the situation.

Mr. Watts, It appears you have not been acting as a polite visitor while visiting the U.S. If you don’t care for the laws or choose not to abide by them, simply stay the fuck out of our country.

I followed a link to the previous post from a LJ post. I’m horrified by your experience, and more than a bit disturbed to learn of the existence of border guards searching people on exit from the US. I know a plan was implemented at airports to screen people leaving the US, which raised IATA hackles, but the implementation of random (or targeted?) searches on exit at land crossings, frankly, scares the hell out of me.

I grew up in a suburb of Windsor, ON, a short bridge or tunnel trip away from Detroit, MI. During the 18 years I spent there, and three or four visits with my parents prior to the passport requirement, I never heard of a story like this. The only Americans a person would encounter on the way back to Canada were the bored toll booth employees, and for a time it was more likely that a Canadian would be searched at Canadian customs due to rampant smuggling of cheap groceries and other products in the early- to mid-1990s.

I think I’ll pass your story along to some local radio hosts I know (I used to host a show myself at a community station. It was interesting). I’m among many Canadians who are too creeped out by the increasing scope and power of authorities over there to consider crossing the border. I like the people; the government, however, freaks me out. Besides, we have enough trouble with our own authorities stepping way over the line.

Ok just read “selected at random for a secondary Customs inspection.”

For everyone who is asking “what can we do?”:

First, be aware that it’s the weekend. One of the obstacles in the way of accomplishing anything lasting about events like this is that most people feel an initial surge of rage, but if they are ignored for a couple of days, they go on with their life and the government can pretend it never happened. Nothing’s going to happen on the weekend. So the first step is to make plans for what you’re going to do next week, and be determined not to let this slip away as another ignored news story.

Second, be aware that this is a larger policy issue and communicate how it is a larger policy issue when discussing this. The problem is not that a few rogue officers beat up Peter Watts. The problem is that Homeland Security and the Border Patrol are completely out of control, authorized to use non-violent force like pepper spray to escalate purely verbal disagreements, authorized to beat people up for asking questions, authorized to arbitrarily confiscate the property of people *leaving* the country for no probable cause and no justified link to any sort of customs enforcement, and authorized to operate with impunity within 100 miles of the border. The ACLU has already been trying to draw attention to the last. This is an opportunity to increase that pressure.

Third, take that general policy issue to the people who are responsible for setting the rules that govern Border Patrol behavior, namely your Congressional representatives. They’re the ones who can apply heat, and they’re the ones who can change the laws of the US so that the Border Patrol is no longer authorized to behave in that way. Complaining to the White House is useful insofar as they can set agency guidelines on behavior; complaining to Congress is potentially more effective because they can change the *law*.

So, for Monday morning, have prepared the facts of the case (which are, if you look at both the police report and Peter’s account, not particularly in dispute apart from the obvious error of which direction he was going and the bogus claim that someone who was just pepper-sprayed is capable of consciously attempting to choke someone). Have prepared the ways that you think that links to a higher policy problem. Have prepared the action that you want your congressional representation to take: namely, an investigation of the rules surrounding the Border Patrol, the 100 mile operations zone, the ability to do arbitrary searches and seizures, and the policy around escalation of force and use of non-lethal weaponry on people who are not physically threatening. And then call your local House representative and both of your Senators and walk the person on the phone through all of this. Phone calls are much more effective than paper letters, which are much more effective than e-mail.

Just wanted to say that you are somewhat incorrect when speaking of Miranda rights. There is no such thing. The so-called Miranda rights are better referred to as the Miranda warning. The legal case of Miranda vs. (cant rem offhand but I assume either US Government or a local govt agency) provided that law officials must provide a warning to those they arrest advising them that they do indeed have certain rights. In fact, you have many more inherent rights than what the Miranda case says you need to be informed of. For instance, it is always to your benefit not to open your mouth at all, before or after arrest, and before or after being “read your rights”.

I just think that is an important distinction to be aware of when dealing with American jurisprudence.

Well, the AP has it now: http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5gLzlt-V3ssTrCzWJvKFFWIEjpv6Q

Be sure if you haven’t to go to this link and send a “tip”: http://www.cnn.com/feedback/tips/newstips.html

Hrmph. Why are the cops never interested in me? I get let off with warnings on the most egregious occasions, they never want to search me. Cause/effect…I love cops. Never met a bad one. However, not everyone can be cop-loving conservative white woman. I agree with whoever said that unless you had a gun, they were out of line.

On the third side, what cops do is scary, and I love them for it. This does not include border agents, what they do is not so scary. When’s the last time an individual at a border crossing pulled a gun? It must happen, anyone? Bueller?

Funny how these (Apparently identical) New York Times and Guardian articles completely skip over the police brutality accusations!

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/12/12/us/AP-US-Writer-Arrested.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/8854408

For whoever is interested in going to Michigan to protest, I’m volunteering to be the contact point for US caravans, particularly ones going North from or through SW Ohio.

No event is scheduled at this time, but, if you would like to stay informed of events or be included in carpooling, send me an email at

peterwattscaravan@yahoo.com

Feel free to post the above email address and its purpose (coordinating US protest caravans) far and wide.

Please be open to altering events based on requests for prudence from Dr. Watts’s legal team.

,Dora P.

I’ve written emails to my Senators (my Congresswoman is worse than useless). I hope it might spark some help. There are plenty of SF fans and authors here in Minnesota who can and should do the same.

Like most customs and border authorities, US border authorities have wide rights to inspect and seize persons, cars and goods, and to seize and copy computers, pda’s, cell phones, and so on. That applies to US and non-US citizens crossing the border in either direction.

Physical assaults are another matter. The biggest problem is documenting the events and their order. Moreover, persons at the border have few Constitutional or procedural protections. Assuming that Dr. Watts was in the US legally, and was still on US territory at the time of these events, he has greater rights than if he were, say, in territorial limbo inside an international airport.

I would hope that this incident also becomes a diplomatic cause celebre. There are, undoubtedly, many other incidents like this one, both at the border and at border guard encounters that are now common along US motorways hundreds of miles from the Canadian or Mexican borders. (Ride a coach from Toronto to Albany some time and count them.) The Canadian-US border is a mutual lifeline. The ways in which its flow can be interrupted in order to express displeasure are many. That should not be necessary. Here’s hoping both governments act to make it so.

It seems possible that US border authorities have been recruiting from among the dyspeptic, if all american, youths who were not recruited to join its colonial forces in the Middle East. This should be an issue on which Canadians and Americans can be drawn together. Escalating rather than resolving this incident is not in our mutual interest.

Many apologies for my country. We are in the midst of transitioning to a police state, it appears. Very sad for us, and very sad for the rest of the world, I’m sure, since we do tend to take things out on others.

All my life, I feared the bully. Now I live within it.

Chris J.:

Both articles appear to be straight from the Associated Press wire, and despite numerous links to these posts around the ‘net, the writer of the wire piece only appears to have included statements from the Customs spokesperson and a local newspaper article. I suspect this may have more to do with AP sourcing policies than anything else, though that’s purely a guess.

Just a very small detail: What happens to the impounded car?

The rental car is not Dr. Watt’s property, but he may have to pay additional rental cost until the car is released to the rental company. If I was manager of that rental company I’d be in touch with police shortly after the car is due in, and if it’s not released, file a charge of car theft against the border patrol or whoever has control of the car …

@JMG8: you’re doing much to convince me that the U.S. of A. are, in fact, a totalitarian state.

Peter – for goodness sake, at least tell me there was a chick involved in this somehow….

To me it seems to be a distinction between treating people with dignity and respect or treating people with fear, aggression or even legalism.

Mr Watts comes across as a man who lives in a world where he treats, and is treated by, others with respect and dignity.  Much the same as the law is suppose to see people as innocent until proven guilty.  Even questioning the officers is a treatment of the same.

There is a tv show in Australia that depicts custom officers dealing with all manner of people entering the country.  These officers have to deal with some very trying situations, but they continue to treat others with dignity and respect.  They do not consider this being achieved by intimidation or aggression.

Such decent standards engenders a positive attitude of respect towards law enforcement.  It would seem that many of those who have made comment about Mr Watts’ situation hold to an appropriate standard.  Especially Mr Watts, who continues to behave with dignity and I applaude him with respect.  I hope all those involved would yet see the value such respect and dignity adds to their lives.

@JMG8″We have enough self-entitled, brainless jerks to deal with as it is.”

Yep, we all have to deal with your sorry ass. Go back to Fark, fuckwit.

Peter,

First, I’m terribly sorry that this happened to you. Aside from sending a donation, if there is anything we can do, please let us know. From the majority of posts here–we’re behind you.

Secondly, I really want to employ my troll killing tactics. If you need any moderation help, I’d be happy to stretch these guys on a taffy puller. I can not believe the unwarranted rudeness inherent in some of the responses. I guess it only takes a keyboard and internet connection to spew incoherent and disrespectful bile. Too bad there isn’t comment software that turns every anonymous comment into gibberish. Fucking cowards.

Hold fast, Peter.

According to some of the articles (Ireland Online in this case):

“Mr Smith said US attorney’s office declined to prosecute and that the case was turned over to city police in Port Huron, north east of Detroit.

Mr Watts was charged with assaulting, obstructing and resisting a police officer, according to St Clair County District Court records.”

So our federal government is embarrassed enough to wash their hands of it. I was unaware that federal charges could be tried in a/by a local court.

How I see this is as a political hot potato. The democrats don’t want to be near this, so I suggest we hold THEM accountable.

Hang in there and all the best.

What about a lawsuit against the goons? Go on the offensive.

At least now you have some good, raw material to incorporate in a book.
On behalf of your prospective readership everywhere, sorry.

The obvious Google search suggests you should also contact the Ontario Trucking Association, who were investigating poor behaviour by guards at this crossing earlier in the year.

The fact that Mr. Watts writes books that some people like does not set him above the law, common sense, and compliance with reasonable police procedure. He was ordered to stop and have his car searched, which is legal at a border. He was ordered back into his car, which sounds reasonable to me. He refused, and then struggled with the police.

People here have rushed to agree with Mr. Watts’s account because they like his books, and because like Mr. Watts they have a problem with authority. I don’t know his books one way or the other, and having crossed numerous borders many times, including the U.S.-Canadian border, I don’t have a problem with authority.

National sovereignty starts with a country’s control of its borders. If Mr. Watts can’t accept this, then he is welcome to park his wiseass in Canada and keep it there for as long as he wishes.

> Yes, it will be interesting to see the footage. I hope there is a soundtrack, too.
> Why did you get out of your car to begin with? Why did you not comply with the
> agents’ order to get back inside? Did you attempt to evade the officers as they
> were trying to handcuff you?
None of this is sufficient provocation to beat, mace, and jail an innocent man trying to get home.

> There isn’t an “spoiled brat sci-fi writer exemption” to the rules.
What rule is there, which allows border guards to mace, beat, and imprison an innocent man who did nothing but cringe away from violence, then file charges under false pretenses?

We’re dealing either with trolls or particularly irrelevant dumbasses. I mean, really, who goes to a guy’s site and lectures his supporters after he’s gone through an experience like this?

To be honest, I’d be pitching in on this one if he hollowed out a HSA agent and danced around in his still warm skin.. (though lets be real, nobody could write the Rifters books, then turn around and be this stupid. Not happening)

Mr Watts has touched my life, and its a red letter day for me when one of his books come out. IIt means a lot to me to be able to give something back for once.

@JGM8

A) How do you know it was a mistake?

B) Here’s the link and the quote:

—–

http://www.thetimesherald.com/article/20091211/NEWS01/91211010/1002/Science+fiction+writer+charged+after+bridge+struggle

Jones said a border officer used pepper spray to subdue Watts. Jones said Watts “choked” an officer during the struggle.

—–

C) Yes, that is one version of events. You have also read (I assume) Mr. Watts’ version. Why are you giving greater weight to one than the other? I can explain why I am.

D1) That there are procedures for law enforcement professionals to follow. Did they follow them? If not, then that may explain why they might “exaggerate” the choking charge. Did you know that the original charge was assaulting a federal officer? What if there was no assault? Did you realize that the US district attorney has looked at this case (and presumably the video tape of the incident) and declined to prosecute? Why would might that be?

D2) That they may have very well been following protocol in everything they did. If so, I want it changed. As an American citizen I have the right to seek that. There is no “the authorities are always right no matter what” in the Constitution. In the meantime, I will do whatever I can to see that someone is not unjustly punished due to (potentially) stupid orders.

Now, can you provide a link that shows that Peter Watts “expect[s] to get a free pass because he writes sci-fi books that some people like”?

@Chris in NY

Thanks for the link about the “choking” allegation. It will be interesting to see the recording. As for the rest, I think everything about Watts’s demeanor since this incident suggests that he thinks he is special and above the rules. I have seen this sort of behavior in many other situations, and I don’t like it one bit.

Mr. Watts has not explained why he got out of the car to begin with or why he didn’t get back in when told to. As for why I give the police greater weight, it’s because common sense regarding behavior during such a stop suggests to me that the police account is more likely to be correct than Mr. Watts’s account.

Again, I am someone who has crossed borders a number of times. I even once had the Customs people seize 10 fake Rolexes that I had bought in China as Christmas gag gifts. They were professional and polite when they did it, and I laughed off the whole thing, as did they. But I didn’t get the watches back.

I think what most likely happened is that Watts decided that he was too important to be searched, and that he was going to be a jerk with the officers. I think he started shouting at them; that they told him to get back into his car; that he refused; that they decided to arrest him; and that he scuffled with them. I think it’s likely that this all arose because Mr. Watts thinks, like so many jerkoffs in so many travel situations, that he is above the rules.

If that’s wrong, I’ll be happy to back down from that guess. But I am not at all convinced by Mr. Watts’s account, and especially not by the mindless blatherings of his fan boys here.

Well, we can all be thankful that the gestapo did release you to Canadian custody, rather than deporting you to Syria or Egypt. Thank heaven for small favors!

Sleep well indeed!

@ JMG8

I appreciate you explaining your position.

Sure, customs is going to search you when you come in to the country and of course they’re going to be concerned about hurting Rolex’s bottom line with the potential (not what you were doing of course) of selling fake ones on the street. Strange to me that China let you take them out.

But that’s not what happened here. He was leaving the country. Isn’t that the direction we want potential terrorists going? Why slow them down?

In terms of cost, why are we searching vehicles leaving the country in the first place? Especially when there’s Canadian BG right across the bridge ready to do the same?

I submit that (if it were true) choking a law enforcement officer would be a serious enough crime for the US D.A. to prosecute vigorously. Rather I think he looked at the inflated evidence, decided there was no case.

It is not yet illegal to be a jerk in the US; if it were, building prisons would save the economy, though I don’t know who’d be left to guard them.

To me, the paranoid delusion is that stupid policy makes us safer, that law enforcement is always right (everyone makes mistakes, but professionals must he held to a higher standard), and that the Constitution does apply at our borders because of 100 lunatics in the mountains of Afghanistan.

@Chris in NY

“Sure, customs is going to search you when you come in to the country and of course they’re going to be concerned about hurting Rolex’s bottom line with the potential (not what you were doing of course) of selling fake ones on the street. Strange to me that China let you take them out.”

——–

Customs couldn’t care less about Rolex’s bottom line. They are law enforcement agents, and it’s against the law to import counterfeit goods. There is nothing complicated about it. As for taking the stuff out, I for one have never had my bags checked upon exit from a country. I am aware that it happens to people, but it has not happened to me. Besides, fake Rolexes are a big business in China.

As for the rest of your conjectures, that’s all they are. Spare me the self-righteous, paranoid dribblings. Really. I don’t think Mr. Watts has been even minimally forthcoming about this incident. He hasn’t explained why he got out of his car, why he wouldn’t get back in, and why he struggled with the police officer.

Remember, Chris, at least with me you are talking to someone who has crossed a lot of borders many times, including the U.S.-Canada border. This incident has every earmark of Mr. Watts being a snotty, spoiled brat. I see this type of traveler all too often. Mr. Watts, I don’t care how many books you write. The rules apply to you just as they apply to me and to everyone else.

What ‘rules’, JMG? That’s where this breaks down. There is no law against being a jerk. We can yell darn near anything (exceptions are fire in certain places and threatening a high government official) without facing a jail sentence.

And really, there’s no need to dismiss what I say as conjecture when neither one of us was at the border that day to witness what happened. You, too, are using conjecture. Just because you’ve crossed borders many times does not mean you know what happened in this case.

And, again, this to me is beside the point:

Should questioning a law enforcement professional or failing to immediately obey a command result in a jail sentence?

If the President saw you on the street and said, “Come here!” and you refused, should you be imprisoned for that? How much less then for someone much, much lower on the totem pole?

I’m not talking about the alleged punches, pepper spray, nor the detainment (the legality and propriety of those may be decided in court, however). That stuff is over and done with unless Mr. Watts and his attorney’s feel he should pursue a civil suit (perhaps, if nothing else, to get his notes, etc. returned).

Put simply: being a “snotty, spoiled brat” is not illegal, nor should it be, merely discouraged and untaught.

@JMG8: let’s get this straight.
– Getting out of the car and asking a law enforcement official for the reason of their action is enough to label someone as ‘snotty, spoiled brat’, beat them and spray with pepper?
(I still find this hard to believe, but I’ve only travelled to other European countries and the only border between two hostile countries that I’ve seen was the German-German border in 1989; also, I honestly did not realize that U.S. of A. and Canada are in highly escalated conflict right now. Wait, don’t tell me that this is border guard’s behaviour on a friendly border. It isn’t, is it?)

I don’t think he’s invested, he’s a troll, he enjoys baiting people. A bit like DHS goons, only hiding behind the relative anonymity of the Internet and not behind a badge and a constitution free-zone, and with a far less impact.

So, nothing to do with sleeping soundly at night, just another bully enjoying himself.

Dr. Watts, perhaps you should take a few minutes and check out the words of fellow Sci-Fi writer Larry Niven. His “How the universe works” might be helpful to you, pay particular attenion to rules #1 and #1(A). Also try Googling Chris Rock – How not to get your ass kicked by the Police. See if you can determine which pointer applies specifically to your case.
On a more serious note, it seems poster ‘JMG8’ has touched a nerve? Some of his points hitting a little close to home? I think he maybe onto something. Here’s a Universal Truth: It takes two to tango. You knew exactly why you were stopped and it pissed you off. You got out of our car to confront someone and stayed out when ordered to get back in, in order to escalate the confrontation. Bingo. You got what you asked for.
Congratulations.

@JMG8 what an amazing troll you are. Better not stay out in the sun too much or you might turn to stone.

Since you weren’t at the scene, all you can do is take Mr. Watts at his word that he got out of his car to ask why he was being pulled aside. Attempting to bait him into ranting I doubt will get you anywhere (other than to get a rise out of the other people on this blog). It doesn’t matter how he answers (or doesn’t answer) your “basic questions”, you all ready seem to have made up your mind (so much for innocent until proven guilty).

The details of all sides of the story will come out soon enough (its not like 12/22 is that far away). If Mr Watts was making this all up there wouldn’t have been any need for him to go back and correct details that people got wrong in news stories/blog posts from his own account (like the whole having to walk across the bridge in a winter storm without his coat).

Its funny you call Mr Watts “arrogant”, “self-righteous” and “juvenile”. Everything I have seen you post here leads me to believe you could apply all of those same labels to yourself.

Oh, and not everyone here is a “fanboy”. I have never met Mr Watts (and probably never will) and I have never read any of his books (though I have read some of the books written by some of the authors who have supported him through these events).

Good luck Peter.

JMG8, please drop the Texan accent and put off your hat, if you please.

It might come to you as an unpleasant surprise, but there are countries, where you do not need to be extremely submissive when talking to government officials. (Hence my questions, and I’ll repeat these here again in hope you’ll be able to answer them this time).

Now, if you could kindly explain to someone who was not lucky enough to put his feet on the U. S. of A. soil:
– why is getting out of the car treated as an act of aggression / assault?
– why asking for reason of the LEO’s action is treated as an act of aggression / assault?
– is it true, that you’re expected to use the answers ‘Yes, sir’ / ‘No, sir’ when asked questions by a LEO?

@JMG8

“They are law enforcement agents, and it’s against the law to import counterfeit goods. There is nothing complicated about it.”

This is precisely what’s wrong with your thinking (or not thinking, as the case may be): the fact that it is illegal is all you need or want to know. Not why.

The reason is two-fold. First, it hurts Rolex’s bottom line. Put in Bush-talk, “Turns out, there’s a connection between people not buying things and the ecomony [sic].” The second is to protect consumers from buying fakes. Of course, if I got a $4,000 Rolex for $50, I might consider that a bargain (though I would know it was a fake simply on the price).

Mr. Watts, feel free to not post this if you don’t want us to engage this person. I merely mean to point out what Bob Altemeyer’s research shows about authoritarians and why, yes, it probably is about JMG8 being able to sleep at night.

I don’t know why I’m chiming in. But, wow, JMG8.

“From what I’ve read, he wasn’t arrested for getting out of his car, but rather for ignoring an order to get back into his car and then scuffling with officers when they tried to restrain him.”

OK. Just how fast does such an order need to be followed? Are you allowed to repeat a civil question at that point? (Which I can easily see myself doing.) Or does that warrant a punch in the face? Do I have to about-face before I draw another breath? Before he does? Do I have to run to the car? Dive in the window?

Can a person of such authority order me to do anything? Just because he wants to? Does it matter if I’m Interfering With An Investigation or just bugging him while he’s gossiping? Can he order me to walk into traffic? Hop on one foot? Can he strip me down, point at my genitals and make a funny face while his friend takes a picture?

How far does his authority extend? Must I cower?

Yes. Liking Peter’s books, I want to believe he’s a nice guy. This is human behavior, given what I know for a fact at this point. Why would you assume the opposite? Do you know the border guard(s)? Why would you assume they’re nice guys or if not that, just incapable of this mistake? *Because* they have authority?!?!

You, JMG8, are supposed to QUESTION AUTHORITY. Maybe not continually, but if you never do, you’re part of the problem.

It seems like someone was being an asshole. We haven’t seen video. Peter has enough of a public/net persona that it’s hard to imagine it was him. What do we know about the other guy(s)?

Peter, sorry this happened.

You ran into the expansion of the Secure Borders Initiative (Google it for what public information is out there on it). The suggestions about joining in with other people who’ve also had problems with US Customs seems to be the most useful one for the general welfare of most people who might cross the boarder.

I think here is the crucial point of the JM8 mindset: “he thinks he is special and above the rules.”

That’s it. Why does Peter get to not put up with crap, when I bend over, take it, and thank my rapist every day?

It’s the same old medieval thinking — “Why do the Jews get away with X or Y or Z”? Not, I should fight for my rights — no, equality means that everyone is reduced to my status.

This is not one unique troll — but a common cultural theme. We heard it through out the last elections about the “elitists” drummed over and over again. We’ll be equal if we’re all equally slaves.

Doms need subs. Subs need doms. And subs hate folks who won’t play their game — who say the game is stupid, cruel, wasteful and inhumane.

I’d like to attempt to answer the three questions ‘Jubal’ posed in his post on the 15th.

” Why is getting out of the car treated as an act of aggression/assault?”

I doubt any LEO’s treat it as an act of assault but I’m sure they see it as aggressive because the fact is, Leo’s are under constant threat by folks who willingly act to do them harm. How does the LEO differentiate between an honest citizen and a cop hating psychopath? By merely being patient, polite and co-operative you are sending a signal to the LEO that you intend him no harm.

“Why asking for reason of the LEO’s action is treated as an act of aggression/assault?”

It depends on the circumstances. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out why BORDER GUARDS are stopping you at the BORDER!!! A LEO stopping me for running a red light or doing 75 in a 60 zone is hardly a pretext for an argument. If you want to protest a nations policy ( yours or anybody elses) on how they police their borders, picking fights with the hired help seems like a good example of shooting the messenger. In the context of Dr.Watts case, if he’d stayed put in his nice warm car and waited until the Leo’s had finished their search i’ll bet dollars to doughnuts he’d have received a polite answer to his questions. As Watts had already acted aggressively (see question #1), it’s easy to see how his next move was viewed as aggressive also.

” Is it true, that you’re expected to use the answers ‘Yes, sir’ / ‘No, Sir’ when asked questions by a LEO?”

Absolutely! Is it also true to answer this way to questions posed by senior citizens? Bank tellers? Teachers? Strangers? Tourists? If not, why not??? It’s a sad comment on the state of society when common sence, patience, good manners and politeness are seen as some sort of deviant submissive behavior.

“How does the LEO differentiate between an honest citizen and a cop hating psychopath? By merely being patient, polite and co-operative”

With a period right there you make on of my primary reasons for being outraged. In NY, when NYPD was facing serious P.R. problems, they enacted CPR — Courtesy, Professionalism, and Respect. There is NO reason why they cannot search while holding to those principles.

One of my favorite (will have to find the link) posted personal stories about people’s own experiences at borders is the man whose company did not give him the proper paperwork for bringing company samples IN to SOUTH Korea. If any country in the world has reason to be paranoid, it is SOUTH Korea because NORTH Korea is of course run by a paranoid lunatic. Yet the inspector patiently helped the man, did not need to treat him like a terrorist or criminal, but maintained respect throughout the interview and eventually helped the man to get the proper paperwork to continue his business (which is another problem, dwindling Canadian visitation to the US means border towns are losing money, but that’s a post for another time).

O.K. This is ridiculous. Some of you talk like these border patrol guards are always on edge, not knowing if the next car is the one that will be their demise. Some unruly Canadian jumping out of his car with an AK 47 ready to drop a few cops. COME ON! This is the CANADIAN border! I’m sure checking thousands of cars a week results in nothing more than monotony and boredom. What Peter was, to them, was a bit of excitement in an otherwise boring day. How many other people have been treated this badly without the online community of friends that are backing Peter. What scares me the most is how many of you find the behavior of these cops acceptable.

Best of luck with this. And to all the wankers who’re making comments along the lines of “Oh, he MUST HAVE sassed the cops”:

Tough titties. Unless he was screaming “Death to America! I’ve got a bomb!”, NOTHING verbal should result in a “suspect” being pepper-sprayed and beaten.

For those who say “He refused a Police Order by not getting back in his car”:

Show us the video. This is the only justification I can see for why we have vid-cams and Big Brother Watching Us all the time.

And NOTHING justifies dumping a released prisoner without adequate clothing in mid-winter. WTF justifies keeping a COAT?!? Computers, techie stuff, even the note-pad… but once you’ve made sure there’s no cache of explosives sewn into the lining, you GIVE THE POOR DUDE HIS CLOTHES BACK! Is a Common-Sense-amputation part of the intake regimen for Homeland Insecurity staff these days?

As a U.S. citizen, I apologize for my country’s heavy-handed behaviour.

Peter, I have a question for you. From what you have posted in various places, it looks like while you are quite upset with the behavior of the officers, still, you see nothing wrong with the jury finding you guilty; and even after numerous comments that mentioned jury nullification as something that definitely should have occurred in your case, still, in your video interview you mentioned that idea in unfavorable light. You blame the “statute”, which “makes a felony everything from asking “why” to attack with a chainsaw”, in your own words; but with this statute being the present law, it looks like you fully support your conviction. So I wonder, doesn’t it mean that had you yourself been on the jury, you would also send a person in jail for two years for making the officer to repeat himself twice after having beaten the person?